I'll have to write a 'how-to' article at some point. One foot in, one foot out of the corrosive civilization. Best methods in the West for building something that'll outlast its host culture.
Good addition to other recent works on this topic, like Johann Kurtz's "It's embarrassing to be a stay at home mom" & "Liberal societies dont have kids", and Joseph Bronski's "Leftism has happened before". Btw what do you think of those articles, if you have read them?
The Bible repeatedly shows that most people only learn lessons the hard way. This will be no different. Earth's population will fall by half by the end of the century because first worlders aren't having any children and third worlders won't be able to feed themselves. Only after they suffer the consequences brought about by demographic collapse will people understand what caused it and how to prevent it.
That's true at the macroscale. At the microscale many of us are already very well positioned to ensure our own communities and microcultures are in a position to grow to prominence.
The Qur'an says something similar. The rise and fall of collectives is in His power. The fate of individuals is up to our own choices. And (Essential) Unity seems to have a habit of overcoming (Temporal) Power.
Again, this is a reflection of how material factors must not be overemphasised in what power they have in final outcomes Otherwise mass tendencies would always win. He that lives by the sword (of the mechanical) dies by the sword.
With Japan, fertility crashed after female legal equality.
"Going through pregnancy and being chained to a child for years on end is just too dangerous of a decision for her to make, so she never really makes it. A man must make the decision for her."
"In the ancestral environment, attempted reproduction is likely to be fatal unless a man is in favour of it. For a woman to want to reproduce, she has to feel herself securely property, securely owned."
What would be your analysis of the Hasidic Jews in New York City?
This is a religious community in a deeply urban jungle that have an average fertility of like ~10 and other than citing jewish dark magic I frankly have no idea what to make of it.
Maybe it's like a situation where the cultural technologies they employ are just so mind-bogglingly powerful that they overwhelm the cities influence?
One of those technologies is like extreme patriarchy and basically forcing women to become mothers... which I mean spells really bad news for the future of the urban monoculture because logically the groups that DON'T employ the same sort of technology just won't reproduce enough.
Great question. My synopsis is below based on my immediate thoughts on the matter, though I have no citations. Also note that the above correlation regards national averages and not the behaviors of specific communities.
Regarding Hasidic Jews:
They're a people so well adapted to urban living that rural farm-work is inherently repugnant: Trade, mercantilism, banking, gold-smithing. Socio-Darwinian forces have selected for a people very robust in the face of extreme urbanization... but who exist solely in isolated enclaves surviving on the good will of a host city and milking it for its economic output. Likely related to how they keep getting kicked out of nations throughout history.
Those that do live in cities (and remain high in fertility) are nearly all hyper-isolationist and tribal. That creates a social buffer. An "our people" and "outsiders" situation. Additionally, you'll note that many of their children who leave the Hasidic community see an immediate equivalent decline in birth rate. Thus it appears possible to create a highly insular clan that's spiritually separate from the urban psycho-social trauma... but you have to keep it socially isolated to mimic a rural village. Psychologically you do it by creating a spiritual ethos where your own people are seen as human, while all others are seen as animals or cattle... which generates certain repetitive patterns of resentment every 6 generations or so.
I'll take a look... women have always been extremely susceptible to social pressures. State violence is required to enforce a state of egalitarianism, not the other way around.
Insightful. I always worry about the “just-so”ing of these sort of questions but you do a pretty good job of sticking to symmetry breakers between them and other groups to justify what is different with them as a whole.
While I don't disagree on principle.... that appears to be a result of over socialization and a breakdown of group socio-psychology. There are (a few) predominantly rural populations with female education that still maintain reasonable fertility. Of course the nature of the feminine role in society is much more strictly enforced than in urbanized/atomized societies. That's why I brought up Kazakhstan as a fascinating counter example.
Female Infertility is a major area where Chinese Medicine is accepted (in Aus anyway) to have major advantages to Western biomedicine. The women that I know that have worked in the area confirm to me where over-socialisation clearly leaves its mark, so that the woman that comes into the clinic daily is 80% the same woman as the others with a different name and face. Think female lawyer, very tidy, maybe beautiful but very buttoned up and proper in public. A big problem with being vulnerable and not in control.
Apart from where Chinese medicine has technical superiority in regulating female cycles, the whole framing which requires the patient to actually think of themselves as a feeling being (i.e. not a meat robot) in order to be diagnosed properly, anecdotally makes a big difference too. Allowing traumas and resentments to breathe. Going into the lower and darker areas without intellectualising, sublimating or projecting.
Surely external/material factors are never root causes, or at least it behooves a post material civilisation to shake off thinking that way. Thinking too "universally" too, as opposed to noticing the same local patterns that may manifest from different material aetiologies. There are relatively more proximal material factors of course, and I do appreciate your exploration of them.
To what extent does "faith" matter IYHO? From personal experience, turning towards Islamicate thinking was a major factor in my having five kids, and their getting along with each other. This had to do with owning sexuality and aggression, and therefore directly understanding/feeling into the difference between man and woman (that Liberalism desperately denies).
Around here, only homeschool Evangelicals have the same or more kids. From extended contact with those groups, and the homeschool Evangelicals that don't fit the pattern, it is the dedication of the mother to home and hospitality that does it. A walled city to protect from Liberal acidity on roots.
Western/ised Buddhists do the worst in terms of wanting and having large families. The distaste for emotions and their "impurity" I reckon is the major factor here. Like a South Korean drama super clean ideal home/office. A coping mechanism in cutting off from, or sweeping under the rug, ancestral junk.
PS. Thinking of South Korea and Japan... I see the influence of a ticking time bomb of trauma that has no room to breathe. Your biggest oppressor (Korean War, Hiroshima/Nagasaki) is that on whom you as a people's are most dependent on (materially, politically and for Korea spiritually), and it succeeds still in gas lighting the world to see it as the "Light on the Hill" despite all it continues to meddle with and corrupt. I have seen Koreans I grew up with be the toughest guys in school, and all kids and wives being beaten by their Korean fathers, to the trend now of effeminate non-threatening boys as the most ideal partner. Ancestral junk, blocked by Western good intentions and poor self awareness, from resolving.
There's often a correlation to economic shocks. There's numerous populations in history that have undergone severe trauma and still retain functional fertility rates. Urbanization closely correlates to both terrible ideologies gaining prominence and fertility decline below replacement. Part of the reason is that far more women choose 0 children and no family when atomized away from a community, and there's no patriarchal order to keep them in line as legalism and managerialism predominate highly urbanized societies. The fact that the same percentages of women have 1, 2, 3, 4... children... it's just women having 0 children grows massively as a demographic. Clearly it has to do with the midwit psychology and what happens when that collective psychology becomes socio-psychologically unbounded.
"There's numerous populations in history that have undergone severe trauma and still retain functional fertility rates."
Hence my specifically identifying "trauma that has no room to breathe". It comes out in art in Japan, but while US bases dot the place it does not come out freely or politically.
Trauma has room to breathe in Gaza, by being a shared and freely discussable reality. There's much less ambiguity about whether your handler is your friend or enemy. Hence fertility remains very high indeed, and the Zionist need to constantly "mow the lawn".
I argue trauma that has room to breathe actually increases fertility rates. That's when men and women really come together in authentic vulnerability, and can create something new together.
Correlation powerful for identifying proximal material factors. Consistency with post-material/metaphysical principle as the way to insulate from all midwit influences, by triangulating actual root causes. The former as a support for the latter.
Interestingly, even our old friend Aurelian is going metaphysical and standing on the older assumptions of Oneness, vs modern material/mechanical overdetermination:
Gotta say, I really like the way in which you write in such an obtuse fashion. I have to read your comments twice to understand them, but they're generally good comments. I appreciate it.
Seriously though, the point of the Analects and similar sounding like fortune cookies is to encourage dialogue or performative participation. Epistemological discursive arrogance is the downfall of literate cultures.
Intentional, but potentially not helpful, once the ignorant are understood to be indeed so ignorant.
Tyson Yunkaporta recounts a view that it is Indigenous peoples' responsibility that colonial Australia has poor relations with them and the Country, because colonial culture can't be expected to understand. On the other hand, rugged individualists and proud autodidacts would not know how to make such relations, even if given Elder time of day. An immunity to initiation and transmission, because projection rules when humility is lacking. This goes for those that say they wish to reconcile with Indigenous but srill don't really know how to listen, too; positive projection is still projection.
I agree with both, but tilt more towards the latter. So the task then is to encourage a relinquishing of pride first.
Well if ever I needed encouragement to move up to the mountains of Hokkaido this essay was it. Time to start packing ;)
Another great essay Copernican.
Maintaining life and a bloodline outside the apparent scourge of urbanization should be a priority for all of us.
Agreed
I'll have to write a 'how-to' article at some point. One foot in, one foot out of the corrosive civilization. Best methods in the West for building something that'll outlast its host culture.
Good idea! I’d love to read that!
Good addition to other recent works on this topic, like Johann Kurtz's "It's embarrassing to be a stay at home mom" & "Liberal societies dont have kids", and Joseph Bronski's "Leftism has happened before". Btw what do you think of those articles, if you have read them?
I'll look into those, thanks.
The Bible repeatedly shows that most people only learn lessons the hard way. This will be no different. Earth's population will fall by half by the end of the century because first worlders aren't having any children and third worlders won't be able to feed themselves. Only after they suffer the consequences brought about by demographic collapse will people understand what caused it and how to prevent it.
That's true at the macroscale. At the microscale many of us are already very well positioned to ensure our own communities and microcultures are in a position to grow to prominence.
The Remnant...
The Qur'an says something similar. The rise and fall of collectives is in His power. The fate of individuals is up to our own choices. And (Essential) Unity seems to have a habit of overcoming (Temporal) Power.
Again, this is a reflection of how material factors must not be overemphasised in what power they have in final outcomes Otherwise mass tendencies would always win. He that lives by the sword (of the mechanical) dies by the sword.
The Chinese say it too. We're entering a period of decentralization.
With Japan, fertility crashed after female legal equality.
"Going through pregnancy and being chained to a child for years on end is just too dangerous of a decision for her to make, so she never really makes it. A man must make the decision for her."
"In the ancestral environment, attempted reproduction is likely to be fatal unless a man is in favour of it. For a woman to want to reproduce, she has to feel herself securely property, securely owned."
https://blog.reaction.la/economics/the-future-belongs-to-those-that-show-up/
https://blog.reaction.la/culture/emancipation-of-women-was-a-fitness-test-that-we-failed/
https://blog.reaction.la/culture/how-to-restore-a-reproductively-successful-society/
I support Honor Killing & TND.
Much of the islamic world is also suffering demographic collapse. And the far east. I think maybe you're responding to the wrong article?
I just wanted to say Nigger.
Thank you,
I will now behave & edit out the autism.
Akarlin (fag now) pointed out no place with electricity gets to 3+ TFR.
A lot of those Islamic places have educated women - esp abroad among elite?
Idk.
C & SE Asia have had a strong demographic revival of late.
Like Indonesia/Malaysia.
Killing Muslims, taking their women & eating Boar are part of my religion.
https://x.com/aestheticprimal/status/1856123039278129611
ਅਕਾਲ
What would be your analysis of the Hasidic Jews in New York City?
This is a religious community in a deeply urban jungle that have an average fertility of like ~10 and other than citing jewish dark magic I frankly have no idea what to make of it.
Maybe it's like a situation where the cultural technologies they employ are just so mind-bogglingly powerful that they overwhelm the cities influence?
One of those technologies is like extreme patriarchy and basically forcing women to become mothers... which I mean spells really bad news for the future of the urban monoculture because logically the groups that DON'T employ the same sort of technology just won't reproduce enough.
Great question. My synopsis is below based on my immediate thoughts on the matter, though I have no citations. Also note that the above correlation regards national averages and not the behaviors of specific communities.
Regarding Hasidic Jews:
They're a people so well adapted to urban living that rural farm-work is inherently repugnant: Trade, mercantilism, banking, gold-smithing. Socio-Darwinian forces have selected for a people very robust in the face of extreme urbanization... but who exist solely in isolated enclaves surviving on the good will of a host city and milking it for its economic output. Likely related to how they keep getting kicked out of nations throughout history.
Those that do live in cities (and remain high in fertility) are nearly all hyper-isolationist and tribal. That creates a social buffer. An "our people" and "outsiders" situation. Additionally, you'll note that many of their children who leave the Hasidic community see an immediate equivalent decline in birth rate. Thus it appears possible to create a highly insular clan that's spiritually separate from the urban psycho-social trauma... but you have to keep it socially isolated to mimic a rural village. Psychologically you do it by creating a spiritual ethos where your own people are seen as human, while all others are seen as animals or cattle... which generates certain repetitive patterns of resentment every 6 generations or so.
https://blog.reaction.la/culture/implementing-patriarchy-without-the-state/
Jim mentions the isolation angle, but it's impossible for an extroverted elite-striving people.
The 6 generations thing is interesting
I'll take a look... women have always been extremely susceptible to social pressures. State violence is required to enforce a state of egalitarianism, not the other way around.
Insightful. I always worry about the “just-so”ing of these sort of questions but you do a pretty good job of sticking to symmetry breakers between them and other groups to justify what is different with them as a whole.
Female education in general and Women going to college acutely.
Female education, as in education/enculturation specifically for females, might also be a solution. Like Sacred Women's Business.
This is as opposed to what happens eventually when a culture just sidelines and denigrates one half of the equation:
https://youtu.be/AlyjACl9GQc
While I don't disagree on principle.... that appears to be a result of over socialization and a breakdown of group socio-psychology. There are (a few) predominantly rural populations with female education that still maintain reasonable fertility. Of course the nature of the feminine role in society is much more strictly enforced than in urbanized/atomized societies. That's why I brought up Kazakhstan as a fascinating counter example.
Female Infertility is a major area where Chinese Medicine is accepted (in Aus anyway) to have major advantages to Western biomedicine. The women that I know that have worked in the area confirm to me where over-socialisation clearly leaves its mark, so that the woman that comes into the clinic daily is 80% the same woman as the others with a different name and face. Think female lawyer, very tidy, maybe beautiful but very buttoned up and proper in public. A big problem with being vulnerable and not in control.
Apart from where Chinese medicine has technical superiority in regulating female cycles, the whole framing which requires the patient to actually think of themselves as a feeling being (i.e. not a meat robot) in order to be diagnosed properly, anecdotally makes a big difference too. Allowing traumas and resentments to breathe. Going into the lower and darker areas without intellectualising, sublimating or projecting.
Surely external/material factors are never root causes, or at least it behooves a post material civilisation to shake off thinking that way. Thinking too "universally" too, as opposed to noticing the same local patterns that may manifest from different material aetiologies. There are relatively more proximal material factors of course, and I do appreciate your exploration of them.
To what extent does "faith" matter IYHO? From personal experience, turning towards Islamicate thinking was a major factor in my having five kids, and their getting along with each other. This had to do with owning sexuality and aggression, and therefore directly understanding/feeling into the difference between man and woman (that Liberalism desperately denies).
Around here, only homeschool Evangelicals have the same or more kids. From extended contact with those groups, and the homeschool Evangelicals that don't fit the pattern, it is the dedication of the mother to home and hospitality that does it. A walled city to protect from Liberal acidity on roots.
Western/ised Buddhists do the worst in terms of wanting and having large families. The distaste for emotions and their "impurity" I reckon is the major factor here. Like a South Korean drama super clean ideal home/office. A coping mechanism in cutting off from, or sweeping under the rug, ancestral junk.
PS. Thinking of South Korea and Japan... I see the influence of a ticking time bomb of trauma that has no room to breathe. Your biggest oppressor (Korean War, Hiroshima/Nagasaki) is that on whom you as a people's are most dependent on (materially, politically and for Korea spiritually), and it succeeds still in gas lighting the world to see it as the "Light on the Hill" despite all it continues to meddle with and corrupt. I have seen Koreans I grew up with be the toughest guys in school, and all kids and wives being beaten by their Korean fathers, to the trend now of effeminate non-threatening boys as the most ideal partner. Ancestral junk, blocked by Western good intentions and poor self awareness, from resolving.
There's often a correlation to economic shocks. There's numerous populations in history that have undergone severe trauma and still retain functional fertility rates. Urbanization closely correlates to both terrible ideologies gaining prominence and fertility decline below replacement. Part of the reason is that far more women choose 0 children and no family when atomized away from a community, and there's no patriarchal order to keep them in line as legalism and managerialism predominate highly urbanized societies. The fact that the same percentages of women have 1, 2, 3, 4... children... it's just women having 0 children grows massively as a demographic. Clearly it has to do with the midwit psychology and what happens when that collective psychology becomes socio-psychologically unbounded.
"There's numerous populations in history that have undergone severe trauma and still retain functional fertility rates."
Hence my specifically identifying "trauma that has no room to breathe". It comes out in art in Japan, but while US bases dot the place it does not come out freely or politically.
Trauma has room to breathe in Gaza, by being a shared and freely discussable reality. There's much less ambiguity about whether your handler is your friend or enemy. Hence fertility remains very high indeed, and the Zionist need to constantly "mow the lawn".
I argue trauma that has room to breathe actually increases fertility rates. That's when men and women really come together in authentic vulnerability, and can create something new together.
Correlation powerful for identifying proximal material factors. Consistency with post-material/metaphysical principle as the way to insulate from all midwit influences, by triangulating actual root causes. The former as a support for the latter.
Interestingly, even our old friend Aurelian is going metaphysical and standing on the older assumptions of Oneness, vs modern material/mechanical overdetermination:
https://aurelien2022.substack.com/p/only-connect
Gotta say, I really like the way in which you write in such an obtuse fashion. I have to read your comments twice to understand them, but they're generally good comments. I appreciate it.
Chinese Inscutability :P
Seriously though, the point of the Analects and similar sounding like fortune cookies is to encourage dialogue or performative participation. Epistemological discursive arrogance is the downfall of literate cultures.
While true, it also can act as a gate keeping the ignorant out.
Intentional, but potentially not helpful, once the ignorant are understood to be indeed so ignorant.
Tyson Yunkaporta recounts a view that it is Indigenous peoples' responsibility that colonial Australia has poor relations with them and the Country, because colonial culture can't be expected to understand. On the other hand, rugged individualists and proud autodidacts would not know how to make such relations, even if given Elder time of day. An immunity to initiation and transmission, because projection rules when humility is lacking. This goes for those that say they wish to reconcile with Indigenous but srill don't really know how to listen, too; positive projection is still projection.
I agree with both, but tilt more towards the latter. So the task then is to encourage a relinquishing of pride first.